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Frequently Asked Questions
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Why should I buy MGM targets?
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MGM has years of experience in both the shooting industry and steel fabrication. Through this unique combination of experience, MGM has created products that are practical, affordable, and exceptionally durable. Every target is made of 500 Brinell steel, the equivelant of Armor Plate, insuring the long life of the target. Combine that with our "No Bull" warantee and our outstanding customer service and you won't find a better product anywhere.
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What is the MGM "No Bull" warantee?
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If for any reason you don't agree that the performance design, craftsmanship, and overall quality of our products constitute the best target value in the country, return your purchase within two weeks for a 100% refund. No questions asked. Every component of every product not intended or anticipated to be shot has a limited lifetime warranty. If it EVER doesn't do what you think it should do, let us know. You WILL be satisfied. We manufacture a full line of steel targets for competition, Law Enforcement, and Military forearms training. We would be honored if you would consider us the next time you need steel. Our products are competitively priced, and you can't buy higher quality anywhere. Please call or email us at MGMTargetinfo@mgmtargets.com
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What are your targets made of?
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All our targets are made of 500 brinell steel, which is the same hardness as Armor Plate. AR 500 is comparable to roughly a 52 on the Rockwell C scale, which is also about the same hardness as a good knife blade. In addition to the chemical composition of the steel, a “quench and temper” process at the steel mill further enhances the steel hardness and toughness. In comparison, your car is made of mild steel, about 135 Brinell, and T-1, (the old steel for targets) is about a 235 hardness. AR500 can withstand literally thousands of rounds from reasonable distances without significant damage.
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How long does it take to get the product after I place an order?
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Usually an order placed will be shipped out in 2-3 business days. On occasion the order may take longer if we are in production of that specific product. Always ask about availability if you have a deadline. We will most likely be able to accommodate you.
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What methods do you ship?
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We ship UPS, DHL, and FedEx Freight. UPS and DHL are used for smaller orders that do not require the use of a forklift for loading and/or unloading. If necessary, we can also ship via the US mail.
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Where do you ship?
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We can ship all over the world though additional shipping charges will apply for orders being shipped out of the continental US.
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What if my order is damaged in shipment?
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We go to great lengths to minimize damage to our products, which may occur during shipping. Some freight companies care, some don’t. When freight is shipped to rural areas, it is frequently “interlined” with a small local carrier. Most of the problems we have are related to a situation like that. As a rule, we’ve had real good luck with Fed Ex Freight, but as with anything else, sooner or later something goes haywire.
Here’s what you do, no matter who shipped the stuff to you, no matter what carrier it came on, no matter where it came from, no matter……
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Refuse to accept delivery, and call MGM. 888-767-7371. Depending on what happens next:
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Write on the Bill of Lading that the container/package/product appears to be damaged. Even if it is only a little hole in the box, have the delivery person make a note that the box was damaged. Sometimes small parts or bolts can fall out of a relatively small hole, so if there is ANY chance that the stuff inside is damaged, make the delivery person notate it.
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Immediately contact the company that shipped the product to you. Tell them exactly what the problem was, and send them pictures if you can. The PRO Number (freight company talk for Tracking Number) will be needed, as well as the name of the delivering carrier. Usually the Delivering Carrier will be the same company who picked it up from the Shipper, but in the case mentioned above, it might have been transferred to a small local company.
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Save ALL the container/pallet/package, so the inspector can see how bad it was.
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If you arranged the shipping for the freight, the shipper (the company you bought it from) won’t have any responsibility related to the resolution of the damaged freight, and he may/may not have any interest in helping you with your claim. If you handled the freight, YOU need to file a claim with the freight company. This will basically include all the items activities mentioned above. The freight company will need to know the repair/replacement cost, etc. etc. etc, and in 4-8 weeks, you’ll probably get it all sorted out.
If you ever have an issue with anything you bought from MGM we want to know about it right away. There are typically two “fix” options for a customer who received damaged freight, as follows:
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MGM will immediately ship you a new part or product. If it is damaged beyond repair, the second option won’t apply. We will get the replacement component/part shipped to you immediately, so as to minimize the impact your activities. We will ask for a little help from you as noted above, because for us to file a claim, we need the info, pictures, and packaging, etc..
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If the product is salvageable but will need to be repaired before it can be used, MGM will still immediately file a claim, and in 4-8 weeks it will be resolved. In the mean time, if you want to take a 12 lb sledge hammer and straighten the part to the point it is useable, (or do whatever else is required to make it work) you will be able to use the product right away. If you opt to do that, MGM will send you a “refund” check for the amount of the claim, after we get it from the carrier. The down side is, you won’t get the check for some time, and your product will always look like it was straightened. The up side is, you’ll get some of the money back, and you’ll be able to use the thing as soon as you fix it.
Our interest is in making sure YOU are satisfied. Hopefully you’ll never need this info, but if you do, we will be glad to go either way. Thank you again for your order!
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How do MGM's costs compare to other Vendors?
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MGM’s costs are all competitive with our competition. Comparing “apples to apples”, in every case we are aware of, MGM’s prices are less than our competition. If you find a competitor’s product that sells for less than MGM’s, there is a darn good reason for it! VALUE has almost nothing to do with “cost”. If you are only going to be shooting for a year, there are a mountain of products that our competitors offer that will meet that need adequately, and will cost you less than MGM’s product. If you anticipate extended usage of your targets (like 5-10 years), you can’t afford NOT to buy our products.
We have put out two challenges. First, to our competitors – We’ll match our product against theirs, with real guns and real bullets, anytime, anyplace. The only stipulation is, there will be a third party there to photograph and write up the test results, and the test results will be published on the web pages of BOTH companies.
The second challenge is to our customers – We’ll pay $100 to the first person who is able to show us a competitor’s product that is better than ours at ANY price!
Like the first classroom scene in “Top Gun”, Maverik answers “YES” to Viper’s question “Do you think your name is going to be on that wall?” Viper’s response is “That’s a little arrogant, don’t you think, considering the company you’re in.” With all due respect, we can afford to be a little arrogant. We make the best equipment in the business.
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How close can I shoot steel?
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MGM strongly discourages shooting ANY steel closer than 15 yards. Period. Shooters AND spectators (especially children) should always wear ear AND eye protection, regardless of target composition (steel or paper). Any closer than 15 yards presents a significant risk of the shooter or spectators being hit by bullet fragments. Generally speaking, MGM targets will easily handle hits from any traditional defense caliber handgun without significant marking.
Regarding bullet fragments hitting shooters and/or onlookers, ANYTIME you are shooting steel, this is a possibility. I don’t know anybody who has shot steel, that hasn’t been hit by a fragment hard enough for it to draw blood. It is usually so insignificant that it doesn’t even require a BAND-AID®, but I suppose that it could be much worse.
The MAIN reason bullet fragments hit people is because the surface of the target is damaged. Damage is usually the result of 1) the target was shot with a rifle (or shotgun slug, or .44 Mag -or larger-), or 2) the steel was too soft to be a satisfactory target, in which case, traditional pistol rounds could have damaged it, or 3) any combination of the above. If the target face is smooth, bullets hit it and splatter like an egg thrown against a wall. If it is dimpled or cratered, bullets hit it and ricochet out of the craters in any direction. I personally know of bullet fragments from a high powered rifle that flew back over 200 yards, to then hit the wall behind the shooter. (That was NOT an MGM target!!) Damaged steel should not be used, even with extreme caution, regardless of the distance the shooter is from the target.
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Can I shoot my rifle at your targets?
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Of course, that is what many of them are designed for! MGM targets can withstand an incredible amount of wear, but even Armor plate can be abused. Every shot from a centerfire rifle at 100 yards is going to put a visible mark on the target. We reccomend shooting the target at this distance a couple of times so you can determine if the mark is acceptable to you before moving it closer. These small marks are what cause the bullet frags to come back...
Shotgun slugs will also significantly mark the steel, and are not recommended at distances less than 50 yards. Steel shot should NEVER be used with steel targets. Buck shot of any size will not damage the steel, any more than twelve .38 caliber pistol bullets fired individually will. 00Buck is fine.
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Why Steel Targets Live or Die
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We don't have the time or space to address every conceivable factor impacting the life
(and death) of steel targets. Nor will we deal with the highly technical side of bullets
impacting steel, such as how deep did each bullet penetrate a specific type of steel. I
don't care how deep one bullet penetrated a piece of steel. I want to know what thousands
of rounds will do to it! Hopefully the following information will simplify this target
business, and eliminate some of the "mystery metal" characteristics that tend to
surround targets today.
Hardness is of course the single most critical element affecting target life. The
hardness of steel is most typically measured on one of two scales. Brinell or Rockwell.
Rockwell is used primarily in machine shops. Brinell would most commonly be used in a
welding or heavy equipment repair shop. There are conversion tables available, but we have
not included them here.
To put hardness into perspective, please consider the following:
- Mild Steel (like I-beams, angle iron, channel, pipe is 112-163 Brinell.
- T-1 (ASTM A514) which has been the target steel of choice for years, has a Brinell
hardness of 235-293. All our standard targets are targets are 500 Brinell (460-540). This
converts to roughly a 52 on the Rockwell scale.
- ARMOR PLATE is 500 Brinell, and has been Ballistically tested and certified.
You will notice that each material has a range of hardness that is acceptable to the
manufacturer and the ASTM (American Society for Testing Materials). I suspect that, with
the exception of the Armor plate, this is because each material is designed for a
particular application or purpose. The hardness will affect that application, but hardness
is not the primary design criteria. It is easy to see that the harder material is, the
better it will stand up in a target application, as long it is not brittle. Some steel
(like tungsten carbide) is harder, but you can break it with a hammer. Target steel has to
have the right amount of hardness, coupled with the necessary chemical properties to make
it tough, and able to stand up to the impact and vibration a target is subjected to.
Two other major factors to consider in target design are weight and movement. Physics:
An object at rest tends to stay at rest. If your target is too heavy for the bullet to
move, or is designed to not move, the target face has to absorb 100% of the bullet energy,
and is consequently going to sustain more damage than a target that can fall down, or is
spring loaded. The same is true for a stationary target. We have seen penetration much
deeper on a 3/4" 500 Brinell immobile target, than on a 3/8" target of the same
hardness, that could move. There are some applications where you have to go thicker,
simply because the bullet carries enough energy to penetrate the target plate.
Check out our section on target repairs, and how heat affects the hardness of target
steel.
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Target Maintenance and Repair Suggestions
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Someplace back in time, maybe 50 years ago, U.S. Steel developed a product
affectionately known as T-1, designated by the ASTM (American Society for Testing
Materials) as A-514. Some time after that, shooters decided it was a great steel to use
for targets. It did a great job then, but there are better products out there now. The
catch is, virtually all of them are heat hardened steels, so there are some complications
related to repairing them.
The easiest and best way to repair damage to steel targets is to purchase steel that
isn't easily damaged. Pretty basic, but frequently overlooked while trying to save a
relatively inconsequential amount of money. That's why we use the 500 Brinell hardness
material on everything we sell.
If your organization has old steel, like most do, I hope the information that follows
will help you make better repairs until you can replace the old stuff. If you have any
questions, please feel free to call me - I'll be glad to help however I can.
One of the most misunderstood, or overlooked factors impacting target life is heat.
Virtually all target steels in use today are "quenched and tempered", meaning
that at the time they are rolled (at the mill) they are heat treated. The chemical content
of the steel certainly plays a big roll in target life, but any heat applied after the
mill heat treatment will adversely affect the life of your targets. This stuff isn't mild
steel, so you can't treat it as such.
There are some manufacturing processes that affect hardened steel during fabrication.
The first thing that comes to mind is the cutting process. The hardened steels cut nicely
with an oxy-acetylene torch, but the heat that is put into them when the torch travels at
30-40 inches per minute is great. We cut all of our steel with a high definition plasma,
laser, or water-jet. The heat affected zone is minimal, basically
only at the extreme edge of the target. You'll never notice it under pistol fire, but it
can be seen to an extent when you begin to hit the edges with high power rifle rounds.
If you have to repair cracks, our recommendation is to use the edge of a grinder to
grind the crack out, all the way to the bottom. You may need to grind some from both
sides, rather than all from one side. If you don't remove the cracked material, and just
weld over a crack, the life you'll get out of the repair will probably be half (or less)
than if you do it right. It is unreasonable to think that your repair will never crack
again. You have a heat treated, hardened area, coupled to a chemically hard but soft area
(softened by the heat you introduced into it), coupled to a soft weld area. "Ductility" is the
technical word describing the rates with which metals flex or bend. The ductility of the
three areas of your repair are all different. You WILL get another crack there. The only
question is, when? If you are the person who did the welding, don't take it personally.
Without the technology, welding facilities, (and expense) of NASA, everyone should expect
a new crack at some point in the future. Like death and taxes, it's inevitable.
When you weld on any heat treated material, use multiple small, hot beads, rather than
a large one. The object is to limit the amount of heat you put into the steel as much as
possible. Let the first weld get cold enough to touch before you make the second pass, or
before you make a pass on the other side. This will minimize what is technically called
the "heat affected zone", and consequently minimize the amount of temper that is
removed from the parent material. Heat on mild steel has very little effect on it, but it
is critical when you are working with heat hardened steel.
If some a) clown, b) moron, c) yahoo, d) expletive deleted shoots a hole in one of your
targets, or if they shoot it with a shotgun slug, castration is always in order. After
that, you've got two real problems. First, all of the area surrounding the weld repair (or
plug) will be softened because of the welding heat. Second, your welding filler material
will be the same hardness as mild steel. The trouble with this is, you have a spot of 135
Brinell hardness on your target. This is going to significantly crater the first time it
sustains a direct hit from a .38 Super, or something similar. Your welding supply store
may be able to suggest a much harder filler metal than the traditional E-7018, or E70S-6
wire, but in any case, it's never going to be as hard as it was before the
repair.
In general, re-heat treating damaged/welded steel isn't cost effective. If you happen
to have a high tech heat treater in your vicinity, You'll find it terribly expensive. It
will probably cost you half the replacement cost of the targets, or more,
especially if you have to
pay freight there and back. Additionally, they usually need to know specifically what type
of steel you have, and what you want done to it. They might be able to recommend a generic
treatment, but it is a safe bet they aren't going to guarantee anything without knowing
the specific chemical composition of the material. If you are the
original purchaser of the material, you can probably find that out from your
supplier. If the purchaser has moved on and you can't locate the
source of the steel, you may be out of luck.
We don't have all the answers, but we'll be glad to help you to the best of our
ability. Just give us a call.
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